 Shoe Loss in Cartoons, Games, Movies, and Comics MegaThread  |
Nopperabo
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Originally posted by tealc176
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Originally posted by Nopperabo
There is also, I think a BIG lost opportunity for shoe loss in the later Oz books.
In The Wonder City of Oz, which John R. Niell (normally the illustrator) wrote himself. There is an Ozelection for rule over the Emerald City. In the original round of this people cast their votes by leaving their right shoes at the polling places of their respective choices. That means that, for a period, pretty much EVERYONE in the Emerald City would be in one shoe. Even more so when the Heelers (who eat votes, and so scarf up all of the results, along with most of the right shoes of those who HADN'T voted yet, thereby making that round invalid).
I'd do some myself, if I was actually a competent artist. Until then I just have to add such losses as I can satisfactorily explain into my own Oz work. |
heh I don't know why but i almost wish that the City of Attis in the dervland story by mandrake had a smilar rule for voting, seeing how the whole story is a wizard of oz parody |
I actually used that bit as a plot point in one of my stories to explain why it is now ILLEGAL in Oz to wear high heeled shoes. (remember, when I am writing, I tend to sublimate and suppress what I would LIKE to see happen in favor of working out what LOGICALLY makes sense within the story. I write to please others tastes, not my own, sort of.)
The way I put it, outside of the Island of Pingaree, (where high heels are referred to as canon by Baum) heels of any kind never really caught on in Oz, for the simple reason that there was no need for them. There weren't any animals to ride (that's what high heels were originally invented for by the Persians, giving your foot something that could catch in the stirrup when you rode, all the height increases and strut stuff came much later) and nearly all of the roads are either rough dirt, cobbles or bricks (i.e. bad surfaces for heels). Pingaree style shoes DID have a brief fashion period, but the Ozelection actually put an end to that, as a lot of people walking around in one high heel translated to MASSIVE numbers of sprains and broken ankles. So that ban is one of the few sumptuary laws Ozma has ever issued (it doesn't hurt that, in my work Ozma is not only far closer to her canon age (i.e. about eight as opposed to a teenager) and has decided that, as she is the queen and can please herself, she will dress the way SHE wants to, which is a far more masculine manner than she used to (she still remembers being Tip, and misses being able to run and play in the boisterous way boys do, which frilly dresses sort of impede) with tights, doublets, jerkins etc.) At a quarter of an inch, the heels on the Mary Janes Dorothy was wearing when she came to Oz for good (which are significant in one of the stories I wrote) are the highest heeled shoes anywhere currently in Oz (and a way that Dorothy can indicate when she is annoyed with Ozma.)
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09-02-2022 22:55 |
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Mandrake 
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Registration Date: 03-03-2010
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| quote: |
Originally posted by tealc176
| quote: |
Originally posted by Nopperabo
There is also, I think a BIG lost opportunity for shoe loss in the later Oz books.
In The Wonder City of Oz, which John R. Niell (normally the illustrator) wrote himself. There is an Ozelection for rule over the Emerald City. In the original round of this people cast their votes by leaving their right shoes at the polling places of their respective choices. That means that, for a period, pretty much EVERYONE in the Emerald City would be in one shoe. Even more so when the Heelers (who eat votes, and so scarf up all of the results, along with most of the right shoes of those who HADN'T voted yet, thereby making that round invalid).
I'd do some myself, if I was actually a competent artist. Until then I just have to add such losses as I can satisfactorily explain into my own Oz work. |
heh I don't know why but i almost wish that the City of Attis in the dervland story by mandrake had a smilar rule for voting, seeing how the whole story is a wizard of oz parody |
I actually bought that oz book because I had read that scene and wanted to see if there were illustrations. There weren't sadly. It's a great scene though. As for adding an "ozlection" to dervland, I don't think it would fit with what I wrote. But feel free to add it to your version of the story.
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09-03-2022 04:18 |
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Nopperabo
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Registration Date: 12-31-2011
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Great for the fetish idea, but kind of dumb in terms of making sense, since, 1. most people have more than one pair of shoes, so voting multiple times is easy and 2. A fairly large portion of the citizens of oz don't WEAR shoes (remember, as talking sentient beings, individuals like the Cowardly Lion, the Woozy, the Hungry Tiger and so on as as entitled to vote as anyone else under Oz laws,) or have ones that are not removable (contrary to what Niell says in the text, the Tin Woodman's shoes are just painted on, and the Scarecrow's boot and his lower leg/foot are the same thing, there isn't anything INSIDE of it except straw.
Burt as I said, I know of no one who did any. For a while I hoped the most recent Japanese set might get there, since they were doing EVEREYTHING. But, like so many times before, they stopped at volume 15 (Baum's 14 plus the Little Wizard stories).
A big problem is that quite a few of the Thompson books that make up the second half of the "Famous Forty" are still under copyright, and so exist in this weird limbo where Del Rey book doesn't want to re-print them themselves because they don't think they'll make enough money on it, and don't want anyone ELSE to re-print or make new editions because it would violate their copyright rights. So a lot of the second half books are hard to find and not well known anymore. The only reason Wonder City WAS reprinted was because Books of Wonder in NY literally BEGGED for it to be.
Also, Wonder City is not a favorite of a lot of readers, they consider the plot poorly thought out.
Also WHO would do it. The number of really famous Oz illustrators who are still alive and well regarded are pretty few. Rob Roy McVeigh is dead. Eric Shantower IS alive, but by now tends only to illustrate either the books he himself writes or are sanctioned directly by the IWOC. Same with the Ages of Oz guy; he's too busy trying to twist Oz into his own plotline. And most of the other ones really aren't that good (there was an interesting edition of the Royal Book of Oz a few years ago, but that was the exception, not the rule.)
A for my stuff, because of that logic thing, shoe losses are few and far between. There's one in The Lost Island of Oz (actually, not a loss, an outright destruction) and an allusion to one that happened in the past in another one explaining WHY Jenny Jump's Golden Fairy Foot slipper is now locked in the Royal vault, by her choice. The Mixmatch Witch of Oz has no shoe losses, but several shoe finds.
Finally, there are a FEW loss book I know of I could point you to. A Refugee in Oz has a shoe removal in it, and while there is no picture of Dorothy with a stocking foot, there IS one of her with the bindings put on her foot once her shoe was taken.
Also if you can find a copy of The Silver Shoes of Oz (it's pretty rare) one illustration shows Scraps the Patchwork Girl missing one of her boots (which actually shouldn't happen, as they are sewn onto her feet)
Oh and in the later famous 40, Manny loses one of her wooden shoes in one of the pictures in Handy Manny in Oz.
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09-03-2022 06:52 |
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Mandrake
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Nopperabo
Great for the fetish idea, but kind of dumb in terms of making sense, since, 1. most people have more than one pair of shoes, so voting multiple times is easy and 2. A fairly large portion of the citizens of oz don't WEAR shoes (remember, as talking sentient beings, individuals like the Cowardly Lion, the Woozy, the Hungry Tiger and so on as as entitled to vote as anyone else under Oz laws,) or have ones that are not removable (contrary to what Niell says in the text, the Tin Woodman's shoes are just painted on, and the Scarecrow's boot and his lower leg/foot are the same thing, there isn't anything INSIDE of it except straw.
Burt as I said, I know of no one who did any. For a while I hoped the most recent Japanese set might get there, since they were doing EVEREYTHING. But, like so many times before, they stopped at volume 15 (Baum's 14 plus the Little Wizard stories).
A big problem is that quite a few of the Thompson books that make up the second half of the "Famous Forty" are still under copyright, and so exist in this weird limbo where Del Rey book doesn't want to re-print them themselves because they don't think they'll make enough money on it, and don't want anyone ELSE to re-print or make new editions because it would violate their copyright rights. So a lot of the second half books are hard to find and not well known anymore. The only reason Wonder City WAS reprinted was because Books of Wonder in NY literally BEGGED for it to be.
Also, Wonder City is not a favorite of a lot of readers, they consider the plot poorly thought out.
Also WHO would do it. The number of really famous Oz illustrators who are still alive and well regarded are pretty few. Rob Roy McVeigh is dead. Eric Shantower IS alive, but by now tends only to illustrate either the books he himself writes or are sanctioned directly by the IWOC. Same with the Ages of Oz guy; he's too busy trying to twist Oz into his own plotline. And most of the other ones really aren't that good (there was an interesting edition of the Royal Book of Oz a few years ago, but that was the exception, not the rule.)
A for my stuff, because of that logic thing, shoe losses are few and far between. There's one in The Lost Island of Oz (actually, not a loss, an outright destruction) and an allusion to one that happened in the past in another one explaining WHY Jenny Jump's Golden Fairy Foot slipper is now locked in the Royal vault, by her choice. The Mixmatch Witch of Oz has no shoe losses, but several shoe finds.
Finally, there are a FEW loss book I know of I could point you to. A Refugee in Oz has a shoe removal in it, and while there is no picture of Dorothy with a stocking foot, there IS one of her with the bindings put on her foot once her shoe was taken.
Also if you can find a copy of The Silver Shoes of Oz (it's pretty rare) one illustration shows Scraps the Patchwork Girl missing one of her boots (which actually shouldn't happen, as they are sewn onto her feet)
Oh and in the later famous 40, Manny loses one of her wooden shoes in one of the pictures in Handy Manny in Oz. |
I was able to find an illustrated version of Handy Mandy online.
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/56079/56079-h/56079-h.htm
I couldn't find "The Lost Island of Oz" though. Not even a link to buy it. "A Refugee in Oz" is available for purchase, but there are no free versions available online that I could find. Perhaps that's because the book is still under copyright.
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09-03-2022 19:48 |
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Nopperabo
Viking
Registration Date: 12-31-2011
Posts: 549
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Mandrake
| quote: |
Originally posted by Nopperabo
Great for the fetish idea, but kind of dumb in terms of making sense, since, 1. most people have more than one pair of shoes, so voting multiple times is easy and 2. A fairly large portion of the citizens of oz don't WEAR shoes (remember, as talking sentient beings, individuals like the Cowardly Lion, the Woozy, the Hungry Tiger and so on as as entitled to vote as anyone else under Oz laws,) or have ones that are not removable (contrary to what Niell says in the text, the Tin Woodman's shoes are just painted on, and the Scarecrow's boot and his lower leg/foot are the same thing, there isn't anything INSIDE of it except straw.
Burt as I said, I know of no one who did any. For a while I hoped the most recent Japanese set might get there, since they were doing EVEREYTHING. But, like so many times before, they stopped at volume 15 (Baum's 14 plus the Little Wizard stories).
A big problem is that quite a few of the Thompson books that make up the second half of the "Famous Forty" are still under copyright, and so exist in this weird limbo where Del Rey book doesn't want to re-print them themselves because they don't think they'll make enough money on it, and don't want anyone ELSE to re-print or make new editions because it would violate their copyright rights. So a lot of the second half books are hard to find and not well known anymore. The only reason Wonder City WAS reprinted was because Books of Wonder in NY literally BEGGED for it to be.
Also, Wonder City is not a favorite of a lot of readers, they consider the plot poorly thought out.
Also WHO would do it. The number of really famous Oz illustrators who are still alive and well regarded are pretty few. Rob Roy McVeigh is dead. Eric Shantower IS alive, but by now tends only to illustrate either the books he himself writes or are sanctioned directly by the IWOC. Same with the Ages of Oz guy; he's too busy trying to twist Oz into his own plotline. And most of the other ones really aren't that good (there was an interesting edition of the Royal Book of Oz a few years ago, but that was the exception, not the rule.)
A for my stuff, because of that logic thing, shoe losses are few and far between. There's one in The Lost Island of Oz (actually, not a loss, an outright destruction) and an allusion to one that happened in the past in another one explaining WHY Jenny Jump's Golden Fairy Foot slipper is now locked in the Royal vault, by her choice. The Mixmatch Witch of Oz has no shoe losses, but several shoe finds.
Finally, there are a FEW loss book I know of I could point you to. A Refugee in Oz has a shoe removal in it, and while there is no picture of Dorothy with a stocking foot, there IS one of her with the bindings put on her foot once her shoe was taken.
Also if you can find a copy of The Silver Shoes of Oz (it's pretty rare) one illustration shows Scraps the Patchwork Girl missing one of her boots (which actually shouldn't happen, as they are sewn onto her feet)
Oh and in the later famous 40, Manny loses one of her wooden shoes in one of the pictures in Handy Manny in Oz. |
I was able to find an illustrated version of Handy Mandy online.
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/56079/56079-h/56079-h.htm
I couldn't find "The Lost Island of Oz" though. Not even a link to buy it. "A Refugee in Oz" is available for purchase, but there are no free versions available online that I could find. Perhaps that's because the book is still under copyright. |
That's because "The Lost Island of Oz" is the title of one of MY Oz writings, and hasn't been published yet! It hasn't even been COMPLETED yet (I have a few fragments, and some bits of plot, but nothing like a cohesive story), anymore than any other Oz story I've written had been (the closest I ever came to a complete Oz story was a single post story chapter to a round robin the IWOC did. And even THAT never saw the light of day, since I got it in AFTER the story was completed (though the editor did say it was refreshing to read something that actually came from someone who was able to write!)
The closest to a complete part is Oz excerpt #5 in my Deviantart folder, which at least explains the no heels rule and WHY her old Mary Janes are now so important to Dorothy.
(and consequently, why losing one of them permanently later in the story is so devastating) (https://www.deviantart.com/goreyacolyte/art/Oz-Excerpt-5-900883184)
The Jenny Jump one I don't think I've written down yet. Basically the reason Jenny doesn't use the slipper anymore is that it fell off once while she was in the air mid jump resulting in her breaking her leg rather badly when she landed, and convincing her that that fairy gift was too dangerous to keep using.
I managed to find the Deviantart link to the refugee picture (which is in color, unlike in the book) https://www.deviantart.com/negaduck9/art/Standing-on-Broken-Glass-148390592
)
Lulu seems to have re-printed the Silver shoes of Oz ( https://www.lulu.com/shop/marin-elizabeth-xiques/the-silver-shoes-of-oz/pap
erback/product-1jwjd9rk.html?page=1&pageSize=4)
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09-03-2022 22:59 |
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Mandrake
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Registration Date: 03-03-2010
Posts: 999
Location: NY
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Nopperabo
| quote: |
Originally posted by Mandrake
| quote: |
Originally posted by Nopperabo
Great for the fetish idea, but kind of dumb in terms of making sense, since, 1. most people have more than one pair of shoes, so voting multiple times is easy and 2. A fairly large portion of the citizens of oz don't WEAR shoes (remember, as talking sentient beings, individuals like the Cowardly Lion, the Woozy, the Hungry Tiger and so on as as entitled to vote as anyone else under Oz laws,) or have ones that are not removable (contrary to what Niell says in the text, the Tin Woodman's shoes are just painted on, and the Scarecrow's boot and his lower leg/foot are the same thing, there isn't anything INSIDE of it except straw.
Burt as I said, I know of no one who did any. For a while I hoped the most recent Japanese set might get there, since they were doing EVEREYTHING. But, like so many times before, they stopped at volume 15 (Baum's 14 plus the Little Wizard stories).
A big problem is that quite a few of the Thompson books that make up the second half of the "Famous Forty" are still under copyright, and so exist in this weird limbo where Del Rey book doesn't want to re-print them themselves because they don't think they'll make enough money on it, and don't want anyone ELSE to re-print or make new editions because it would violate their copyright rights. So a lot of the second half books are hard to find and not well known anymore. The only reason Wonder City WAS reprinted was because Books of Wonder in NY literally BEGGED for it to be.
Also, Wonder City is not a favorite of a lot of readers, they consider the plot poorly thought out.
Also WHO would do it. The number of really famous Oz illustrators who are still alive and well regarded are pretty few. Rob Roy McVeigh is dead. Eric Shantower IS alive, but by now tends only to illustrate either the books he himself writes or are sanctioned directly by the IWOC. Same with the Ages of Oz guy; he's too busy trying to twist Oz into his own plotline. And most of the other ones really aren't that good (there was an interesting edition of the Royal Book of Oz a few years ago, but that was the exception, not the rule.)
A for my stuff, because of that logic thing, shoe losses are few and far between. There's one in The Lost Island of Oz (actually, not a loss, an outright destruction) and an allusion to one that happened in the past in another one explaining WHY Jenny Jump's Golden Fairy Foot slipper is now locked in the Royal vault, by her choice. The Mixmatch Witch of Oz has no shoe losses, but several shoe finds.
Finally, there are a FEW loss book I know of I could point you to. A Refugee in Oz has a shoe removal in it, and while there is no picture of Dorothy with a stocking foot, there IS one of her with the bindings put on her foot once her shoe was taken.
Also if you can find a copy of The Silver Shoes of Oz (it's pretty rare) one illustration shows Scraps the Patchwork Girl missing one of her boots (which actually shouldn't happen, as they are sewn onto her feet)
Oh and in the later famous 40, Manny loses one of her wooden shoes in one of the pictures in Handy Manny in Oz. |
I was able to find an illustrated version of Handy Mandy online.
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/56079/56079-h/56079-h.htm
I couldn't find "The Lost Island of Oz" though. Not even a link to buy it. "A Refugee in Oz" is available for purchase, but there are no free versions available online that I could find. Perhaps that's because the book is still under copyright. |
That's because "The Lost Island of Oz" is the title of one of MY Oz writings, and hasn't been published yet! It hasn't even been COMPLETED yet (I have a few fragments, and some bits of plot, but nothing like a cohesive story), anymore than any other Oz story I've written had been (the closest I ever came to a complete Oz story was a single post story chapter to a round robin the IWOC did. And even THAT never saw the light of day, since I got it in AFTER the story was completed (though the editor did say it was refreshing to read something that actually came from someone who was able to write!)
The closest to a complete part is Oz excerpt #5 in my Deviantart folder, which at least explains the no heels rule and WHY her old Mary Janes are now so important to Dorothy.
(and consequently, why losing one of them permanently later in the story is so devastating) (https://www.deviantart.com/goreyacolyte/art/Oz-Excerpt-5-900883184)
The Jenny Jump one I don't think I've written down yet. Basically the reason Jenny doesn't use the slipper anymore is that it fell off once while she was in the air mid jump resulting in her breaking her leg rather badly when she landed, and convincing her that that fairy gift was too dangerous to keep using.
I managed to find the Deviantart link to the refugee picture (which is in color, unlike in the book) https://www.deviantart.com/negaduck9/art/Standing-on-Broken-Glass-148390592
)
Lulu seems to have re-printed the Silver shoes of Oz ( https://www.lulu.com/shop/marin-elizabeth-xiques/the-silver-shoes-of-oz/pap
erback/product-1jwjd9rk.html?page=1&pageSize=4) |
Nice! I didn't know that you are writing an oz book. Would love to read it when it's done.
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09-04-2022 06:18 |
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Nopperabo
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Registration Date: 12-31-2011
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I'm not writing an oz book, I'm writing about a half dozen oz books, all at the same time. When I get an idea, I write it down and then see which story idea it fits best into. If you simply go into my Deviantart folder, you will find fifteen other short bits I have managed to get down, and there are two or three more I could put down right now when and if I had time.
Fair warning though, my Oz is NOT exactly like the Baum one (though it is closer to that than to, say, the MGM movie universe, or the Greg Maguire Wicked one.) A fundamental thing in my writing is that, while people in Oz don't age unless they want to, they DO change over time, as they live longer and gain new experiences. Dorothy (due to a combination of not that much responsibility and easy access to Professor Wogglebug's learning pills) is now far more educated and knowledgeable than most university professors would be in our world (most people in Oz are, since the pills are available freely) and has lost her Midwestern accent (the result of accidentally taking an elocution pill that got mixed into her oratory pills). Jack Pumpkinhead has availed himself of the pills as well (by dissolving them in the water he uses of his head pumpkins and so now HE isn't dumb anymore. And he had his body redone so he's not clumsy anymore either (the Scarecrow is actually slightly jealous of him now, as he is now a GREAT dancer and not afraid to show it when Scraps needs a partner.)
Ozma, as I said, is now a tomboy who usually dresses in boyish clothes (while paradoxically also being a bit of a clothes horse with a truly extensive wardrobe.) The Wizard is still the Wizard, but I have pointed out his few character flaws (that he is often overproud now that he knows real magic, and also has a tendency to not adhere to the tenet "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Politically things are very different as well. Not only is there peace with the Nomes under Kaliko, they are actually now very close Oz allies, and labor and goods flow freely between Oz and the Nomish Empire (Kaliko changed the name to reflect that there a a lot of subjects in the empire who are not, racially, Nomes, including his father.) People travel a lot through the empire as well, on the NART (a vast pneumatic railway system the Nomes have built throughout all of Nonestica, which means the Deadly Desert is no longer usually a problem for people wanting to get from, say, Oz to Ev.
The Oz people even now have something akin to telephones and televisions, thanks to one of the Wizard's experiments (basically, they're simplified, mass produced versions of the Magic Picture.) Which allow Ozites to not only communicate with each other, but even keep an eye on our world (which explains, for example, how the Emerald Palace chefs can cook more ethnically diverse dishes than one might expect from Baum's Oz.)
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09-04-2022 15:34 |
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Mandrake
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10-06-2022 08:12 |
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Nopperabo
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Well, I just saw the trailer for the new Velma cartoon (and hence, got my first whole body look at the character) and damn it, they once again have decided to go for more "contemporary" footwear, swapping Velma's red Mary Janes for dark red to brown boots/sneakers (hard to tell which). So shoe losses are unlikely (they're way too high to slip off.)
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10-07-2022 04:58 |
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Nopperabo
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Speaking of Velma and Scooby Doo, I finally found a widescreen version of the "Behind the Doo" short Boomerang did, and in it, you can finally see definitively that Velma is in fact dangling, rather than missing one of her shoes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0I6QClCysx4
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10-09-2022 03:41 |
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Mandrake
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGGU9_d4hTY 12:00 in. At one point the girl on the right removes the other girl's shoe and plays footsie with her. Lots of nice closeups. I get the feeling these girls know there are a lot of fans of their feet and do this on purpose.
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10-26-2022 15:58 |
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Nopperabo
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For those of the furry-ish persuasion (or, at least, furry tolerant persuasion), a couple of weeks ago, an artist showed up on Danbooru who seems to have done a LOT of single shoe/ shoe dangle pictures. I won't claim they are GREAT pictures (he or she seems to have a thing for showing shoes that are worn out, missing their laces, smashed in, or otherwise wrecked) but there are quite a few (and do worry, none of this is actually NSFW, it's mild ecchi at best)
https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts?tags=fox-pop_vli&z=1
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10-26-2022 22:51 |
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jr5713
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Hawaii Five-O (Classic), Season 2, Episode 14
The wife of a bank's boss gets murdered and for a short time, you can see the lower half of her body on the floor with only one of her white heels on. It's almost 25 minutes in. I think she's wearing stockings or nylons but correct me if I'm wrong.
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10-27-2022 00:39 |
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omega
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10-27-2022 01:06 |
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Mandrake
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10-27-2022 08:15 |
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Nopperabo
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| quote: |
Originally posted by jr5713
Hawaii Five-O (Classic), Season 2, Episode 14
The wife of a bank's boss gets murdered and for a short time, you can see the lower half of her body on the floor with only one of her white heels on. It's almost 25 minutes in. I think she's wearing stockings or nylons but correct me if I'm wrong. |
It sounds sort of like the beginning of the First issue of the comic Murder Me Dead. In that case, you have a hanging woman in one white heel (including a closeup of her feet for the front cover). Oddly, despite the fact that one can assume her other heel fell off when she hung herself, it isn't on the ground in any of the pictures. Maybe this is significant later (I've only ever seen the first volume.)
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10-27-2022 14:20 |
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jr5713
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Nopperabo
It sounds sort of like the beginning of the First issue of the comic Murder Me Dead. In that case, you have a hanging woman in one white heel (including a closeup of her feet for the front cover). Oddly, despite the fact that one can assume her other heel fell off when she hung herself, it isn't on the ground in any of the pictures. Maybe this is significant later (I've only ever seen the first volume.) |
I remember a future volume of Murder Me Dead being linked here, but basically it was a murder disguised as a suicide if I'm not mistaken. Another woman hung up the victim with the victim losing one of her shoes in the process.
Also, got another one.
CSI: Miami, Season 1, Episode 11
Calleigh is shown in one boot and a white sock after searching a crime scene in the water, as she had some leeches on the leg of her non-booted foot. It's about 26 minutes in.
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10-28-2022 18:08 |
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Mandrake
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11-07-2022 06:47 |
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Nopperabo
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For the collectors out there, there is apparently a Funko Pop of Suicide Squad Harley Quinn with only one boot (like at the beginning of the movie) out there (though I suspect it is a limited edition, given that there doesn't seem to be a copy on eBay at the moment.)
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11-17-2022 18:34 |
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MerpserGuy
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12-01-2022 07:30 |
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